rice, who is one, black, two, a woman, and three, unrelated to either one of those things, not somebody who has exactly known for the most butter smooth personality in terms of getting along with people. there's a kind of larry summers abrasiveness aspect to her yet the idea was that she would be secretary of state. he meant if that didn't work out but it's hard for me to forget that in terms of what's going on now. so i think it's a ridiculous charge because of rice alone. >> and by the way, when she was put forward and we don't know if she was the first pick but when she was put forward she was immediately attacked and a25kd in the most debasing terms by people like john mccain saying, she's not smart enough and really attacked her in such an ugly way that i think it's ironic that anyone from the party having seen and witnessed and participated in that would turn the charge around on the president. >> so there's an interesting question here, i think, which is -- who has standing to make this claim? which i think ends up being the kind of second beat of the conversation because i've se